Roller splat game4/2/2023 In the JavaScript ecosystem you have libraries like immutable with 3 million downloads/week and ramda with nearly 6 million downloads/week. Maybe its working great for people who started with Clojure/JVM and saw ClojureScript as an alternative to JavaScript, but what about the other side of the fence? Those who start with JavaScript (which is now, far and away, the majority)? That was the original plan and it is working great. I just want more developers to try Clojure, but for many of them, the JVM is a dealbreaker, which is unfortunate. I don’t have a bone to pick with the JVM. Is the fact that Clojure is so closely associated with the JVM a hindrance to further adoption? I’m not an expert, but my understanding was that Clojure on JVM was a pragmatic choice, based on the dominance of Java at the time and the desire to leverage an existing ecosystem.īut now the dominant ecosystem is JavaScript (like it or not, and I don’t), so if Clojure was created now, would it still have leveraged the JVM? Or would Clojure have targeted JavaScript first and would ClojureJVM have come later? Just like I wouldn’t suggest that everyone using ClojureCLR stops using that. I wouldn’t say I suggested that everyone running Clojure/JVM should stop what their doing, tear everything down, and switch to ClojureScript/Node.js. If I want more people looking at ClojureScript/Node.js for server-side development, I should start promoting it to those around me as a start.īut you pitched your original post as an argument for ClojureScript/Node.js to replace Clojure/JVM Maybe I should be taking a look in the mirror. And we can either stay under that rock and watch the world go by or accept that things change. I’m personally not a fan of JavaScript (which is why I want to see more adoption of Clojure!), but you’d have to be living under a rock not to see that Node.js has supplanted Java in a lot of places as the dominant platform. Is, maybe, the kind of attitude that can alienate the millions of developers who do just that. Who in their right mind would choose NodeJS over the JVM for server side programming? This is where fullstack JavaScript/Node.js shines (even if JavaScript, the language, doesn’t). In that case, your primary concern is IO, and providing an API layer for consumption. I agree that the JVM would be better for serious computation, but a primary use case for Node.js in enterprise is to integrate data from various back-end sources (including mainframes) for presentation via APIs. Just some thoughts from a Clojure fan-boy who’d love to see more people using it. Macchiato) as a viable alternative to Clojure/Java? Is it time for ClojureScript to take center stage? Should the community start looking at ClojureScript/Node.js for server-side development (e.g. These days, new developers and large enterprises are much more likely (in my experience) to choose JavaScript/Node.js for their full stack (or at least large portions of it), and having identical language semantics and build processes for both browser and server eliminates a lot of friction.Įven though Clojure and ClojureScript are largely identical in their semantics, their interop/build process/runtimes/tooling are very different, and quite frankly, when it comes to new user adoption, once I mention Java-on-the-server, it becomes an instant “no thanks, not interested”. This approach has served the Clojure community well for a long time, but Java is no longer the dominant platform it once was, and I wonder if current pecking order of Clojure/Java being the “primary” version of Clojure and ClojureScript/JavaScript being the “browser” version of Clojure is hampering continued adoption of the language. So, its well understood that Clojure gained traction by being a hosted language on the dominant platform of the time (Java, duh), and ClojureScript was created later to target JavaScript in the browser, allowing for “full-stack” Clojure.
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